vaultofthearchonfandomcom-20200214-history
124324-my-timeline-about-how-to-make-ws-the-no1-mmo-in-the-market
Content ---- added bold text, had enough of the trolls messing up other people gameplay in the lower level zones. | |} ---- we almost see eye to eye. and you know what.. we are probably right :D but the "forced mentoring" (downlevelling) needs to happen sooner, probably with a world bosses touch up and loot table adjustments. i would say in drop 6. also, Carbine needs to find a way to make PVP gear works in open world PVE. if they want PVP servers alive... in my opinion it is so much a hassle having to chose between pvp gear or pve gear while doing open world content on a pvp server.... either gimp yourself against the content or against other players... it just suck to make this decision. maybe pvp gear should be only allowed in pvp instances. anyway, pvp vs pve gear is just retarded design... gw2 and eso don't use that for their open world pvp... | |} ---- ---- the gw2 lfg too lis more like a "lfg board". you can post your intent like "looking for experienced players for gold medal run of ST" (instead of being for to just "queue up for the dungeon". and also you can see what player signed up for the group and what is missing. it is basically between an automated system and a human system. its great. much better than automated bs. but then again carbine didn't ask themselves the question.. they did like wow circa the era they left bliz. | |} ---- WS is already the No1 MMO in the current market, people have just to learn it ;) | |} ---- Check how imho a LFG tool must be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBn2i89qzJc | |} ---- ---- Drop 7 will not come before autumn anyway :) | |} ---- I dunno, man. I saw Sony turn DC Universe On-Line from sub-based to F2P in a matter of a few weeks. I ain't saying there ain't some work involved, but I expect most of that would happen at the business-end as opposed to the development end. | |} ---- ---- You don't know if Carbine has been working on it or not, so it could be sooner than later if it happens. Of course they will have housing stuff in the shop, it's a no brainer, but if it's not the only way to get it in-game then that works perfectly for both parties. I agree nothing should be behind a paywall, so if someone wants to by a costume, or any vanity item with real money, then you should be able to buy that same item in game with plat or gold. | |} ---- Removed them from original post. Ok now? Also added pets & toys. Still huge potential for a fluff only cash shop with the remaining items :) | |} ---- Of course housing will be cash shopped, and for just that reason. You don't make money in F2P or B2P unless people want the stuff on your shop enough to pay more than we'd pay for the entire game right now. | |} ---- I just don't understand how this would be any kind of boon for a cash shop. I mean, seriously, why would people (groups of people, as in enough people to make it commercially viable) spend money on an item they can just run a dungeon or do a few dailies to get? Why is the Blizzard shop successful? Because you can't get those vanity pets/mounts any other way. I just have never understood the "I pay a sub so I deserve every single item that is ever made for this game, no matter what" mentality. Game's gotta make money. You can't make money selling things that people can get in-game with minimal effort. | |} ---- GW2 have a split, structured PvP has separate set of gear but all have access to same and it's only usable/active in that mode, WWW ("open world") its just what you are wearing in PvE. | |} ---- If I'd need to spend 10+ hours running whatever or have option to drop something like $5 to get some cosmetic item I'll choose latter if I really want it but dont have time to grind for it. | |} ---- Honestly, for me it doesn't really matter, but to some it does so making it a option for both parties is a good idea. Let's be honest here there thousands and thousands of people that would rather plop 5-10$ on an item than running a dungeon that takes even as little time as an hour, because we all know that saying time is money. | |} ---- At least it's an honest statement. I totally believe that subs deserve every single item that is ever made for the game. Obviously, they paid for it to be developed, whether it sells or not. Unlike other models, a subscription-based service makes sure the wealth gets spread around, because you're paid by the player, not the sale. You only make money if your game makes people want to play it. Once gameplay isn't what you monetize, you can make all kinds of cuts. Fixes can take longer, development can be slower, you can shift a single QA department from game to game if you have a bunch of them. If you can slash half your staff and make a profit, you can do that without worrying about it. The only way you make money, though, is to put things people will absolutely want on the shop. No cash shop works with take-it-or-leave-it, not even the ones the subscription game companies run. If they give you a path to getting cash shop currency, they'll make it a long road indeed. Otherwise, they can't give you the game, support, and service for free. | |} ---- I didn't expect you to change your opinions or anything! I just wanted to point out that decor is kind of its own thing between gear and traditional cosmetics, and imo shouldn't be thought of as a simple cosmetic reward (mounts and pets and such don't really interact with gameplay). So I think it should be kept out of cash shops. | |} ---- It wouldn't work perfectly for both parties though. It would still take away from the people who craft, farm, or trade for decor, and would impact pricing of decor on the auction house. I understand what you're saying and it's possible that a compromise could be reached that makes the majority happy. But decor is more sophisticated than typical cosmetics and shouldn't be thought of as the same thing. | |} ---- ---- not really viable for a certain type of player: the very casual who also plays other game and that just want to log in Wildstar a few hours a week (maybe just for raid because that is all they like, maybe just for a few hours of pvp) and that doesn't feel or have the time to "grind plats". for them, box price + sub (or 20$credd) is too expensive. i can understand that. i'd personally rather have these players in game than not. credd is only good for the committed player that do have a LOT of time to put in the game (well, enough time to spend a decent chunk of it farming to buy credd). these are probably not the players that wildstar doesn't have at the moment. | |} ---- I did it just to show WS has huge potential and many many choices for a superb and fair cash shop. With or without housing items, it will be great if its done right by Carbine. Mounts, pets, dyes, costumes, costume slots, flairs, toys, gathering tools and services like race / faction / name changes will do the job easily :) An exchange of money->credd->gold and an optional sub is the only thing needed. | |} ---- If this game goes B2P/F2P cash-shop driven, then decor, dyes, and costumes will be the FIRST things thrown into the shop, trust me. | |} ---- they can start it slow, like Eso did. geez, people even complained in Eso because of lack of stuff to buy from the cash shop... only difference is that Eso have a cupcake(huge) load of content so that even if they don't pump out new content as fast, a lot of players even after 1000h into it (an amount of time that the majority of the players probably won't even reach) will never even finish all the quests and dungeons and trials and what not is in this game (including RvRvR pvp). wildstar being a much smaller can be completed... quite fast. Carbine will need to be a bit more like Arena Net and throw content at the gamers faster, but in smaller chunks, so they keep the hype going. | |} ---- Agree.Ppl should also know about how much content there is in WS that awaits ppl in order to wake up. Tons of almost non playable content (until now), like world bosses, events, bg's, warplots, arenas etc is only awaiting for more ppl to jump in. Imho with an equal amount pop as ESO, WS exceeds both in content quantity and quality by a mile. | |} ---- Were you here in June and July, by chance? | |} ---- forced mentoring down? NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO | |} ---- if you try to appease every type of player you are going to fail, big nets are good, but too big and you start to reel in alot of crap. the player type you are describing doesnt sound like a very fun one to play with or a very lucrative player for carbine to attract. | |} ---- ---- Why? I personally do not like being in the zone where everything dies just by looking at my character and I saw enough trolls ruining fun in the lower level zones when it's optional. Higher levels will still have adventage due to full skill set and items -- I did not like FFXIV way of removing my skills when level synced as it was reason for a lot of WTF!1? moments I made in dungeons there. | |} ---- I agreed with it up until you said costumes and decor in the cash shop. The biggest draw of ALL for me at Launch was that finally, FINALLY, I found a good game that did housing and dyes right. I am sick of Cash Shops and their one-time use dyes, or decor pieces, or housing floor plans. I don't mind mounts or mini-pets, or -maybe- certain houses/floorplans/skymap shapes, but not decor, costumes, or dye. Never those. I'm not completely against hybrid models or BSP + Sub option/etc, but there are so many badly done cash shops and WildStar has so many things that COULD be cash shopped, that the mere mention of it puts me on edge. | |} ---- you will love drop 5 then since we are getting missions to go to lower levels zones ^^ | |} ---- Without level sync -- ouch, I must start leveling faster then, saw the destruction when atma farming started in FFXIV :D | |} ---- ---- That's technically what I was trying to said in a different thread. Current model which came from WOW is design for grinding in mind. To force players spend more time in both contents. The problem is that those gears underperform in the opposite side. PvP gear lacks output for PvE, And PvE gear is supposed to underperform and be squishy in PvP. My suggestion in that thread was to get rid of the PvP stat and offer similar stat gear in both PvP and PvE with different model looks, so that people who want both sets will have to do all content, but not feel weak or out of place by using the wrong gear because that's the only set they have. Also sets in PvP should require an equivalent work to get to the PvE offerings to prevent raiding drop. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- No thanks, I've already seen what that route brings about - Champions Online took that path, and it's now a dead-in-the-water game that is lucky to get a fraction of its pre *2P populace on the server at one time, a grindfest economy the likes of which would make a Korean MMO call overkill, and virtually no real in-game content updates, just desperate churning-out of cash-store-only cosmetic items to keep them going with most of the playerbase gone, and most in-game item-drops changed to lockboxes that are only openable with keys that require real money to buy and have ridiculously-low chances of rewarding items players actually want, forcing them to spend sometimes literally a hundred bucks on keys and still get nothing valuable. | |} ---- Well, Champions Online didn't go B2P + optional sub. It went F2P + optional sub and slapped restrictions galore on F2P players. Also, as I pointed out in my post, I prefer the idea of allowing subscribers to purchase things in the cash shop with in-game currency to giving them a monthly stipend - for the very reasons you underlined. Oh, I made a ninja edit. I mean to say that having things available to subscribers for in-game currency would disincentivize bloating the cash shop and incentivize subscribing. I was wordsmithing and didn't go back to change that before posting. :D | |} ---- ---- | |} ---- ---- i marked the things red that should never come. LFR Tool doesnt work in Wildstar the bosses need cordination and thats not possible with randoms, or the need to make it so easy WoW'lers could run it.(Both we dont want) Cash Shop would just wipe away the customer they have right now. Guild Housing and Account Wide Achievement should come that would be great. | |} ---- I m not speaking about LFR but for an improved LFG. Check link again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBn2i89qzJc Cash Shop goes with the suggestion of B2P+sub+credd transition, not as a p2p mmo. Btw if you mean a cash shop and a b2p+sub+credd model will wipe away all 3 ppl standing in Thayd right now, then I can accept that :) Anyway, while WoW Token is coming, Gw2 & FFXIV first expansions are already in the corner and ESO's B2P is thriving (not even mentioning SWTOR, TERA & Rift) , do you think a new Drop would be enough to attract more ppl? | |} ---- Ok i watched the Video, so you want a game where communication is not important anymore. ( Just log on look for a Run and go off, like League of Legends etc...) Cash Shop is a nogo, why do we play games with sub, because we want everything for our sub and the moment there is a cashshop special stuff will only be buyable in the Shop even when a sub options stays. Yes i think a new Drop can attract lot of people, just look a Drop 4, lots of people came back. The problem with your suggestions is, you want a RPG with some Multiplayer options like Diablo, but we are playing MMORPG, where Communication is a important part of the game, and with all the LFG, LFR a huge part of the game is lost. | |} ---- Lol, is that much asking for a group tool that you can advertise your party or find other advertised parties? You know spamming isn't consider as a communication with others, right? Btw i never mentioned LFR at all. Drop 4 indeed brought some ppl back. But how many? Can you pls log in this moment in Jabbit and tell me how many ppl do you see in Thayd? Can you make any kind of group? I m in right now and waiting. Just pls dont tell me to wait 5 more hours until prime time in order to just do any kind of group content. I m already logged 4 hours now... My suggestions are based following a basic principle for mmo's. What ever content, quality etc a mmo has, is pointless when there aren't enough ppl to play with. This is the basic principle for any current or future mmo and its more important than paying models, cash shops, content, patches etc. | |} ---- No i cant log in right know, because like the mayority of the community i work at day and play at night :) You postet a link with a LFR Finder so i included it. And i was a Jabbit yesterday at 1 am and there where still over 100 people around me, so people are there, just not all the time. If we go back at the Basic of MMO'S, we had small communities of players and a MMO with 50.000 Players was called a really big one, just a reminder, and i had holiday 3 weeks back and it was possible for me to find groups even at 10 am. You may ask how i did that? I used the Chat and /w function to ask people if the want to run a lvl 20 dungeon with me, and after 15 min i had a full group and we startet. You just need to get your ass up and talk to people and not wait for a tool to do your job. | |} ---- ---- ---- It kind reminds me of reading the attitude in most of your posts. :-) | |} ---- ... Not sure how difficult this would be to implement, but I'd like to see a loot lock at the player level. I don't mean to trivialize raiding, but on non-raid nights (or the nights I'm not selected to raid) I wind up just doing dungeons, day in/day out. I enjoy raiding and this would allow me to group up with others (besides my guild) and not be locked out if my guild should happen to want to run some as well. | |} ---- Such LFG is quite easy since there is no match making code behind it. If i want to farm SSM for example for DPS shoulders and i've a few guild mates that are helping i can make a party and then advertise my party as "experience group farming, looking for 2 dps" so you let them know what your plans are and your level of play. When we have a group with newer players you can advertize as "training run" for example, then people know what they are up to when they are joining your party so that they don't leave when you take your time explaining boss mechanics for example. Also it helps to see who is queuing, now you see a timer saying 30 minute wait time and you have no idea how many are in the queue and what is needed to make a party. Now at the moment you can have 2 groups of 3 in the queue and you keep waiting and waiting... while in the situation you can see the group you can contact them and decide to leave one of your friends behind to actually play for example. Now if you can also add world bosses and 2+ mobs (bounty) then that would be great. | |} ---- ---- Of course they did. That is what made them money. And when you go non-sub, you NEED to make as much money as you can to balance out the lack of steady income you had when you were still sub. Having a "much better game engine" doesn't enter into it. That's the rut that other B/F2P games like Champions Online are in... they can't afford to add new content, because that cuts into their time and ability to make their little lockboxes and whatnot that they need to keep going. So you wind up with a dead game with a huge cash-store full of what amounts to gambling tokens. Do you really want that to happen to WildStar? | |} ---- | |} ---- GW2 had the living story, new content every 2 weeks. Vince still has nightmares about it. In another thread someone said what kind of new things Aion has with their updates. | |} ---- You lost me at #3. Didn't know you were a financial advisor to NCSoft... Oh wait, you're not?! *gasp* Leave the financial state of the game to the people that get paid to do it. kkthnxbye. | |} ---- Guild Wars 2 had the massive userbase and established popularity brought about by the game's predecessor, GW1, so they were able to go F2P without fear of needing to their content-output to keep afloat. Wildstar has neither a massive userbase nor established popularity, so going non-sub would be much much riskier for their current routine and potential future. Going B2P or F2P would be the complete opposite of Wildstar's best interests. | |} ---- ---- ---- Yea, even if they made it where your next toon skips the world bosses, god they are the worst part D-: Wha? | |} ---- This will only makes it harder for people to go into the game and they sort of get trapped if they decide to leave since when they want to come back they need to pay the full price again. I'm out then right away with that kind of system. | |} ---- Current subs keep the same schedule as we have. Returnees get to come in at the regular sub rate as well. I was just throwing it out as a more unique idea that allows kind of the best of both worlds possibly without really affecting the current set up. I reposted the line that would negate your concern above. Once you completed paying for the game your sub would be back to the same price as it is now. Just a delayed box price essentially that would incentivize Carbine/NCSoft to keep improving the game to earn the subs to last long enough to pay for the box price. | |} ---- They could drag it out even more if they felt it would be feasible or adjust the numbers however they want to make it so they could just delay the cost of buying the game until people really felt they were getting a game they thought was worth the price of admission People that like the game could actually offset the price of the game by buying Credd in game that way as well. Even could add an option to upgrade to full version and pay the remainder of the box price at once to go back to regular sub rate early if they were really liking it. If it works to start really getting subs up consistently could even add in discounts to the sub fee for longer than 6 months. Maybe even get it down to like a half price sub at max that then allows long time subs to pay for like 2 months of game time with Credd. That would make Credd even more popular and drive the price of credd up a little incentivizing the purchase of Credd for people to sell for in game cash. I think Wildstar is a great game and the Carbine should be allowed to make some cash off it without going F2P and then having to focus mainly on the fluff in the cash shop. I'm trying to think outside the box and come up with something that incentivizes them to keep improving the game play and at the same time give people that are on the fence a good option to try the game out instead of just reading negativity and stay away. The community as a whole is pretty solid here and even in disagreement rarely ever get outright toxic. Once in game they may realize that the negativity is really pretty low compared to other games that have more popularity right now and the game is definitely going in the right direction overall. | |} ----